Orci And Kurtzman Not Writing TF3

[Wonko The Sane]

Just picked this up at TFW and at this wonderful site here: http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showt...21#post1403421

So now,the two writers are gone,which means Ehren Kruger is going to write the main script for the next TF Film.However,Orci and Kurtzman are freely going to pas any information to Kruger,but they will not be officially involved with the TF3 Script.

So,what will this mean for our 'beloved' Movie coming out in two years?

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wonko The Sane

Just picked this up at TFW and at this wonderful site here: http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showt...21#post1403421

So now,the two writers are gone,which means Ehren Kruger is going to write the main script for the next TF Film.However,Orci and Kurtzman are freely going to pas any information to Kruger,but they will not be officially involved with the TF3 Script.

So,what will this mean for our 'beloved' Movie coming out in two years?

Already old news, but expect other major plot holes and testicular humour.

[Wonko The Sane]

Should have guessed that I'm already late,but since no one has Posted this as a single Thread...might as well.

Oh why couldn't this Movie Series steer into a good direction?I guess I should be thankful that the closest thing we ever got to something good was the 2007 Film.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wonko The Sane

Oh why couldn't this Movie Series steer into a good direction?I guess I should be thankful that the closest thing we ever got to something good was the 2007 Film.

Even if i didnt like many aspect of the first movie,Orci and Kurtzman were able to keep the story simple and watchable.Ehren Kruger is responsible for most of the bad things in ROTF.Now that the best writers are out ,you can only imagine the worst.More annoying and uninteresting characters,more sex jokes and more excuses for explosions.

[PowerGrind]

good for them, get out before their reputation is totally wrecked xD
My interest in the 3rd movie just keeps going down and down. I honestly hope im proven wrong and somehow bay and kruger and co can pull off something great, but again, doubts

[pittstop]

half my wish list fulfulled, now sack shia and megan and I'll be very pleased.

[Wishful Thinking]

I still don't think Orci and Kurtzman were the primary "problems"...chances are, if you thought the movies were bad before, they'll probably be even worse now.

[pittstop]

I don't know, that assumes someone else is incapable of a better idea - and let's face it, that sure as hell isn't true.

[Firefalcon]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

I still don't think Orci and Kurtzman were the primary "problems"...chances are, if you thought the movies were bad before, they'll probably be even worse now.

I cuncur. I have always been under the impression that Orci and Kurtzman had a different 'vision' of the Live Action TF universe than what we have. I believe that they are probably the reason the films have been as good as they where, as opposed to how bad they could have been.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by pittstop

I don't know, that assumes someone else is incapable of a better idea - and let's face it, that sure as hell isn't true.

If you didnt knew,Ehren Kruger was responsible for most of the bad in ROTF(The Twins and Dev Testicles).So expect the worst.

[Lady_Decepticon]

A room full of retarded slugs sliding over a keyboard could probably create a better script.

[Firefalcon]

Face roll scripts are quite amusing!

[Wonko The Sane]

Originally Posted by Lady_Decepticon

A room full of retarded slugs sliding over a keyboard could probably create a better script.

lol,that's the best thing I heard all day.

[PIMP MY AUTOBOT]

I Hear People Have All Thease Bad Opinions About The Writers...how Would You Make A Better Film? I Mean Everyone Is Entitled To Their Opinion But Come On...its A Movie, Not Politics...
I Never Had A Bad Reaction To The 2 Movies...i Mesn Theres Some Stuff I Would Have Liked To See, And Some Stuff I Would Have Perfered Them To Leave Out But To Me I Get To See A Movie With Transformers Come To Life, And As A Kid Growing Up, I Wouldve Gave My Left Arm To See Back In The 80's.

Lets Be Honest...i Dont Think Theres Ever Going To Be A Perfect Script To A Transformers Movie...i Mean As Many Tf's As There Is...someones Gonna Complain That Their Favorite Transformer Isnt On The Big Screen

My Advice Is To Take It All In...appreciate It For What It Is, And Not Even Worry About Whos In The Movie Etc......

[pittstop]

Sigh, why so pessimistic about the fact a BETTER script CANNOT be written? Of course it can. But as I've probably pointed out before - Better for whom?

I'd say a large number of those attacking the current script aren't doing so "because it's not G1" they are doing so because they HAVE seen BETTER films and would like the NEXT TF film to be like THOSE films.

As for people "getting over it" that they dislike the movie, well that's like saying you can't still love a film your entire life. People feel what they want to feel, and if other people don't like that - ignore them.

[PIMP MY AUTOBOT]

I know everyone is entitled to there opinion...that is why we have forums...but how many times are people going to complain about the same thing...it was done on the first movie and the 2nd movie...and now people are getting on the writers without giving the next writer the benefit of the doubt...like i said this is a movie, not a life or death thing so ill give people the benifit of the doubt on this stuff....

like i said, i really wish they did some things different in both movies but im OK with it....
i feel no one will ever be satisfied with a transformers movie, no matter who directs it or writes it

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by pittstop

"because it's not G1"

This is the only time I'd really ever say "get over it".

[pittstop]

how many times are they going to complain about the same thing? I don't know, how long are we going to remember that the remake of the Italian Job wasn't a comedy? How long are we going to remember that Bambi's mom got killed? how long are we going to remember that Thundercats the Movie was just an elongated TV episode?

My point remains the same, if you dislike reading complaint after complaint then perhaps public forums aren't the best place for you? you have the ignore button if they piss you off. besides, in and among some of the complaints are valid comments that can (not always but it's a possiblity) lead to interesting debate, interesting in that they aren't actually the same arguments regurgitated. Even a devout Bay-hater like Lady D can sometimes spark a point which others can relate to.

I agree it does get boring reading posts where people are still harping on about how ugly the designs are or how purile the jokes are, so if I see those posts I tend to switch off and move on to the next post. The comment may be something you've read before but it's still important to the person who wrote it.

finally, I agree with WT, G1'ers really have had plenty of time to get off the bandwagon now, they must surely realise this ISN'T ever going to be even similar to G1, so complaining about that point is seriously moot. I don't give a **** whether they still hate the film and care to share that fact, they can and it doesn't interest me, so i just don't read those posts.

It's that simple.

[Firefalcon]

Originally Posted by pittstop

Sigh, why so pessimistic about the fact a BETTER script CANNOT be written?

Inversely: a WORSE script CAN be written.

I would like to think that even the most disgruntled fan should find some joy in the fact that these movies have added MILLIONS of new fans to the franchise. This means more transformers for many years to come. This does not mean that a fan should like the movies, it just means that anyone that hopes the franchise ends because of their disdain for these films...really isn't a fan. Yup,you heard me...I said what needed to be said

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Firefalcon

anyone that hopes the franchise ends because of their disdain for these films...really isn't a fan.

That's a given. TBH, though, those folks seem to be few and far between (although there have been a couple slide through here a long while back).

[pittstop]

exactly, The Films, sure aren't for me, but it doesn't mean I'm about to spit the dummy and say "I'm never collecting any more Transformers because Bay messed it all up", because to be quite frank that's just stupid. So I'm unlikely to buy the toys from it or the DVD's, doesn't mean something else can't come out later that I do want, and yeah at least Bay has breathed some life into the 20 something old franchise that could easily have gone the way of Starriors or Centurions by now.

[Firefalcon]

Personally I LOATHE Armada...that did not stop me from buying Unicron when I saw him.

[Aesir]

Originally Posted by Firefalcon

Personally I LOATHE Armada...that did not stop me from buying Unicron when I saw him.

and primus from the cybertron line?

[Firefalcon]

Never got that one. I preferred the Marvel mythos of Primus where his "spark" is was gives all the TF's their life(makes the whole "till all are one" thing make more sense). This left him unable to assume a robot form.

[Aesir]

Originally Posted by Firefalcon

Never got that one. I preferred the Marvel mythos of Primus where his "spark" is was gives all the TF's their life(makes the whole "till all are one" thing make more sense). This left him unable to assume a robot form.

but when you think about it, he had a giant head in the middle of the planet, he says that Cybertron was his body (all this in Marvel) maybe he could have transformed?

[pittstop]

Originally Posted by Firefalcon

[color="Red"]Inversely: a WORSE script CAN be written.

true, and I seriously can't argue otherwise, it is a posibility that someone who hasn't been with the project from day one may not even "get" the elements that have "worked". But I like to try and remain optimistic a change in writing team will be a positive influence.

[Lady_Decepticon]

Originally Posted by Wonko The Sane

lol,that's the best thing I heard all day.

Now where's my POV Gun?

[Wonko The Sane]

I don't have one.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Firefalcon

Inversely: a WORSE script CAN be written.

I would like to think that even the most disgruntled fan should find some joy in the fact that these movies have added MILLIONS of new fans to the franchise. This means more transformers for many years to come. This does not mean that a fan should like the movies, it just means that anyone that hopes the franchise ends because of their disdain for these films...really isn't a fan. Yup,you heard me...I said what needed to be said

I dont really believe fans want the end of the franchise because unsatisfied with the Bay movies(mostly ROTF).I think they are asking for a total reboot,and a movie based more on the robots and less on the humans.I dont see the need of a big complicated plot.A simple story that fans and average moviegoers will enjoy could do the job.If J.J. Abrams made it with Star Trek ,i'm sure a very good reboot can be done.

[Aesir]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

I dont really believe fans want the end of the franchise because unsatisfied with the Bay movies(mostly ROTF).I think they are asking for a total reboot,and a movie based more on the robots and less on the humans.I dont see the need of a big complicated plot.A simple story that fans and average moviegoers will enjoy could do the job.If J.J. Abrams made it with Star Trek ,i'm sure a very good reboot can be done.

wait...I havent seen Star Trek yet, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't focus on robots

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Aesir

wait...I havent seen Star Trek yet, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't focus on robots

My point was that it was possible to make a movie that fans,critics and the average moviegoers will like.And that's something that very few of the original Star Trek movies did.And by the way ,there's actually one robot in new Star Trek movie.

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

My point was that it was possible to make a movie that fans,critics and the average moviegoers will like.

I doubt that. Iron Man did that...but that movie focused solely on the journey of a man's attitude towards life. Not exactly Transformers material.

The only way critical fans will be honestly happy is if the movie focused solely on the Transformers themselves...which won't make the general audience happy. The only way critics will like the movie is if it somehow champions the "preservence of the human spirit"...which won't make fans happy since that would mean more humans. And to make a movie where you simply blow up everything and hope for the best will only please the general audience (which is mostly what we got, which makes sense since they have all the money).

If you can give me a movie that is well-received by fans of its respective culture, has great emotional weight, blows up almost everything and is populated nearly exclusively by CGI aliens, then I'll admit I'm wrong.

I'm waiting.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

The only way critical fans will be honestly happy is if the movie focused solely on the Transformers themselves...which won't make the general audience happy.

Why would someone pay to see a movie called "Transformers",and then wont be happy if it focuses on the giant transforming robots?

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

The only way critics will like the movie is if it somehow champions the "preservence of the human spirit"...which won't make fans happy since that would mean more humans.

Wall-E did it.

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

And to make a movie where you simply blow up everything and hope for the best will only please the general audience (which is mostly what we got, which makes sense since they have all the money).

It's a movie about an epic war between machines,so you expect explosions.But there is a difference between explosions from a battle,and explosions to fill up screentime because out of ideas(like when Sam and Mikaela ran thru a battlefield for nothing).

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

If you can give me a movie that is well-received by fans of its respective culture, has great emotional weight, blows up almost everything and is populated nearly exclusively by CGI aliens, then I'll admit I'm wrong.

I'm waiting.

The first movie that pop in mind is "District9".And very soon "Avatar" that could be as good or be another "Terminator Salvation".

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

Why would someone pay to see a movie called "Transformers",and then wont be happy if it focuses on the giant transforming robots?

Because most people like to see humans interacting with robots...not JUST robots.

Wall-E did it.

And yet, I can't imagine you would be happy with a movie focused solely on the character development of one, single Transformer.

It's a movie about an epic war between machines,so you expect explosions.But there is a difference between explosions from a battle,and explosions to fill up screentime because out of ideas(like when Sam and Mikaela ran thru a battlefield for nothing).

Granted, but the general audience apparently doesn't see the difference, so that's moot.

The first movie that pop in mind is "District9".And very soon "Avatar" that could be as good or be another "Terminator Salvation".

Never saw D9, but I was under the impression that the movie was told from the human prespective, not the other way around as Critical Fans would have it for Transformers.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Because most people like to see humans interacting with robots...not JUST robots.

I never said anything about having no humans.In most incarnations of the TF's,only a handfull of humans were part of the stories,and the movies should reflect that.

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

And yet, I can't imagine you would be happy with a movie focused solely on the character development of one, single Transformer.

Have you seen Wall-E?

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Granted, but the general audience apparently doesn't see the difference, so that's moot.

So for you, the general audience dont see the difference between "Pearl Harbour" and "Saving Private Ryan".

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Never saw D9, but I was under the impression that the movie was told from the human prespective, not the other way around as Critical Fans would have it for Transformers.

It is,but without giving any spoilers,the movie is made so you can see both side of the story.You really ,really need to see this movie.And the Mecha is the best i ever saw on the screen.

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

I never said anything about having no humans.In most incarnations of the TF's,only a handfull of humans were part of the stories,and the movies should reflect that.

But my point is that the "gen. aud" won't go for that....unless you want a movie aimed at 5 year olds.

Have you seen Wall-E?

Yes, I have. Several times. And no, no one would accept that for a Transformers movie....well, maybe five year olds...

So for you, the general audience dont see the difference between "Pearl Harbour" and "Saving Private Ryan".

The difference between those two movies had nothing to do with the action scenes. They went to see the battle of Pearl Harbor...they got a cheesy Titanic-rip off love story. I haven't heard anyone complain about the battle scenes, though. "Saving Private Ryan" had battle scenes without the cheesy love story...but the battle scenes were still regarded about equally. One delivered with a pretense that no one cared about....the other delivered with little pretense and was regarded better. Surely you understand THAT.

It is,but without giving any spoilers,the movie is made so you can see both side of the story.

But that's not what Critical Fans want...they want 80% Transformers/20% Humans which wil NEVER, EVER happen as a live-action movie. It might happen down the road as a 3D CGI movie...but then the question will be if they'll end up "kiddifying" it.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

But my point is that the "gen. aud" won't go for that....unless you want a movie aimed at 5 year olds.


Yes, I have. Several times. And no, no one would accept that for a Transformers movie....well, maybe five year olds...


The difference between those two movies had nothing to do with the action scenes. They went to see the battle of Pearl Harbor...they got a cheesy Titanic-rip off love story. I haven't heard anyone complain about the battle scenes, though. "Saving Private Ryan" had battle scenes without the cheesy love story...but the battle scenes were still regarded about equally. One delivered with a pretense that no one cared about....the other delivered with little pretense and was regarded better. Surely you understand THAT.




But that's not what Critical Fans want...they want 80% Transformers/20% Humans which wil NEVER, EVER happen as a live-action movie. It might happen down the road as a 3D CGI movie...but then the question will be if they'll end up "kiddifying" it.

Ok so in other word ,we will NEVER EVER see a good Transformers movie.Unless it's aimed for 5 yo kids?

And in another subject here's the second full trailer for "Avatar".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LQkTQ1foSU

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

Ok so in other word ,we will NEVER EVER see a good Transformers movie.Unless it's aimed for 5 yo kids?

Live action? There's just no way to market a high-robot to low-human movie. It can't be done, IMO, and Hasbro and Paramount knows it.

We could get something like Animated in CGI, which would probably be the closest Hollywood would be willing to invest in a "mostly robot" action-drama...but then the movie would be widely panned as bi-polar for looking kiddyish while pushing adult themes. It still could happen...but Hollywood is still probably smarting from TMNT's failure.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Live action? There's just no way to market a high-robot to low-human movie. It can't be done, IMO, and Hasbro and Paramount knows it.

We could get something like Animated in CGI, which would probably be the closest Hollywood would be willing to invest in a "mostly robot" action-drama...but then the movie would be widely panned as bi-polar for looking kiddyish while pushing adult themes. It still could happen...but Hollywood is still probably smarting from TMNT's failure.

TMNT failed because they went for the videogame animation style.The technology is available ,it's the will that's lacking.

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

TMNT failed because they went for the videogame animation style.The technology is available ,it's the will that's lacking.

Not the will...the belief that the movie would be marketable. Make it too dark and kids won't see it. Make it too light and Critical Fans won't be happy. Go the middle and critics will pan it. It's a lose-lose-lose situation so, as a business exec, you follow the money.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Not the will...the belief that the movie would be marketable. Make it too dark and kids won't see it. Make it too light and Critical Fans won't be happy. Go the middle and critics will pan it. It's a lose-lose-lose situation so, as a business exec, you follow the money.

There is always a way to make a good balance.A good example is the 2005 King Kong movie.Except for the bugs and T-Rex scenes that were way too long ,the movie was great with something hard to make realistic.If 80% robots scenes is too much and 40% not enough ,they should go for 60% ,so the robots remain the main characters while human interaction is still there.There is always a way to balance things.But it will never happen if they only hire directors that want to do a picture as quick as possible,even if it doesnt make any sense at the end.

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

There is always a way to make a good balance.A good example is the 2005 King Kong movie.

Unfortunately, that movie barely made a profit domestically, so business-wise, that's not a good example. it's not that a balance can't be found, it's that it won't make money because marketing will fail.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Unfortunately, that movie barely made a profit domestically, so business-wise, that's not a good example. it's not that a balance can't be found, it's that it won't make money because marketing will fail.

That's one grim thought.Lets burn down all the movie theaters and thank all the Michael Bay's of the world that killed the epic movies.

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

That's one grim thought.Lets burn down all the movie theaters and thank all the Michael Bay's of the world that killed the epic movies.

Nah, it's not that great epic movies can't be made. It's whether great epic movies mostly about ALIEN ROBOTS that's in question. Mind you, RotF was essentially 40/60 robot/human over #1 being about 25/75...maybe they'll finally push the ratio to 50/50 at least for #3 and allow more than just OP, BB, Megs and SS to develop some character.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

Nah, it's not that great epic movies can't be made. It's whether great epic movies mostly about ALIEN ROBOTS that's in question. Mind you, RotF was essentially 40/60 robot/human over #1 being about 25/75...maybe they'll finally push the ratio to 50/50 at least for #3 and allow more than just OP, BB, Megs and SS to develop some character.

Even if TF3 was 75% robots ,we all know that the clones,the farts,the sex jokes and useless explosions are gonna ruin it.You know it's gonna turn bad ,when the only people remaining are the only one who thought the Twins and Dev's Testies were funny!

[Wishful Thinking]

Originally Posted by Grimlock99

Even if TF3 was 75% robots ,we all know that the clones,the farts,the sex jokes and useless explosions are gonna ruin it.You know it's gonna turn bad ,when the only people remaining are the only one who thought the Twins and Dev's Testies were funny!

I dunno...those jokes were there (albeit, not QUITE as crude) in the first movie and that didn't deter the Gen. Aud., so I doubt those things being present in the next film would deter them either.

[Grimlock99]

Originally Posted by Wishful Thinking

I dunno...those jokes were there (albeit, not QUITE as crude) in the first movie and that didn't deter the Gen. Aud., so I doubt those things being present in the next film would deter them either.

And after that people ask why we have less and less epic movies.